On Monday 26 October, renowned Egyptian writer, feminist and activist Nawal El Saadawi joined journalist Wendell Steavenson and a packed audience at the Frontline Club for a discussion that spanned the topics of linguistic philosophy, feminism and globalisation – all of which were explored in the context of El Saadawi‘s own life experiences and recent developments in Egyptian politics.

Sitting in same room as legend #NawalElSaadaei @frontlineclub pic.twitter.com/93hzphE6My

— Nahla Al-Ageli (@NahlaInk) October 26, 2015

The discussion began with a focus on the United States’ continued military aid to Egypt. This was something El Saadawi felt passionately against, not just in Egypt’s case but on a global level. “Fair trade, not aid,” she said.

“The 2011 revolution was hijacked by the United States working with Egyptian politicians. Hilary Clinton came to Tahrir Square as soon as the revolution began. Why?”


The conversation then moved onto the subject of globalisation, and how colonising powers have always played the game of “divide and rule.”

El Saadawi expanded: “When Sadat and Reagan came, they brought the Muslim Brothers. Why? They wanted to fragment the country by religion. They wanted to fragment the country by class. They wanted to fragment the army. What is the difference between Syria and Egypt now? Syria is completely fragmented, because the army is fragmented. And this is why we are unified in comparison. This is why the Americans are against Sisi.”

When Steavenson questioned her about the way the Egyptian government has been punishing members of the Muslim Brotherhood with imprisonment and death sentencing, El Saadawi said: “I am against the death penalty. I am against putting anybody in prison. I am against all that. But I am also against a religious state. Whether Islamic, Jewish, or Christian. We cannot have true equality in any religious state, because all religions oppress women.”


She continued by explaining the extent to which gender inequality has been rooted in religion: “In the three major monotheistic religions, Adam was set free as an innocent, while Eve was a sinner because she ate from the tree of knowledge. Women are not expected to be equal. Why do you think I’ve had three husbands? Because they hated my intelligence. They wanted a stupid woman.”


Even though El Saadawi‘s main work and research focus revolves around injustice, she revealed her enduring optimism in the face of adversity. “I am always optimistic. I learned very much about this in the experience of prison. The women I was with were very pessimistic, because Sadat told us he will kill us. So every day they woke up crying, and I started dancing. I told them we will live and be free; just to have that idea gave me hope. When you have hope, you inspire people with hope, and hope is power. In the worst situations, I am hopeful.”


Steavenson asked about the moment when her sense of justice came into being, and why she initially became motivated to challenge injustice.

El Saadawi explained that when she was 7 and 8 years old, she felt something was not right in the way that she was treated in comparison with her brother. Her older brother was lazy and spoilt, whereas she was hardworking and neglected.

“During Eid, I received half the money that my brother received in gifts. I asked my parents why. They said because God said so. They thought they would shut me up by saying ‘God’. So my first letter ever when I was 8 years old was to God, but I still haven’t got an answer!”

Four and a half years ago Egypt dominated headlines globally with scenes of hope and change in Tahrir Square, yet now the country garners attention for a very different reason – the imprisonment of journalists.

Much has changed in Egypt since Nawal El Saadawi last spoke at the Frontline Club four years ago, and we are pleased to welcome her again to reflect on the situation today in Egypt. She will be joined in conversation with journalist Wendell Steavenson, who was in Tahrir four years ago and has covered the change that has taken place in subsequent years.

With Abdul Fattah al-Sisi due to visit Britain before the end of the year, we look at the track record of his government and how he is viewed by Egyptians across the board. We will be asking what democracy means in Egypt today.

Nawal El Saadawi is a renowned Egyptian writer, feminist and activist. She has published over 40 books, which have been translated into over 30 languages. New editions of three of her books have just been published: Woman at Point Zero, first released in 1975, The Hidden Face of Eve, and God Dies by the Nile and Other Novels.

Wendell Steavenson has lived in and reported from Georgia, Iran, Iraq and Lebanon. She is the author of a number of books, including most recently Circling the Square: Stories from the Egyptian Revolution. Her work has appeared in the Guardian, The Telegraph, Granta, Slate.com, Time, The New Yorker and other publications.

PLEASE NOTE THIS EVENT WILL BE FILMED AND STREAMED LIVE ON OUR YOUTUBE CHANNEL

Next week we will be joined by the Guardian’s Luke Harding and the BBC’s Angus Roxburgh to discuss their experiences reporting from Russia and whether the country is a Mafia State.

There are two third party events next week; on Monday you are invited to join the Unreported World team as they launch their autumn series. On Wednesday Communications Inc will be bringing together a panel to discuss whether increased media attention on the state of our oceans can help save them.
 

Follow us on Twitter and catch up on any events you missed on the Forum blog or download our podcasts on iTunes.

The novelist, feminist and activist, who who has been imprisoned and exiled as a result of her work campaigning for women’s rights, was presented with the Women of the Year Outstanding Achievement Award in recognition of her work.

El Saadawi, who will be speaking at the Frontline Club on Friday, said she was happy to receive the award because it means that her creative work gains “more and more recognition” from her peers and others.

“Winning this award encourages me to continue my creative dissident writing and fighting,” she said. “I am always hopeful – especially since the revolution in Egypt in 2011; women will unite in the Egyptian Women Union and fight locally and globally for their rights. As for me, I am writing a new novel inspired by the revolution.”

Baroness Helena Kennedy QC, president of the Women of the Year, wrote that the awards still matter because "not enough has changed" for women: "We still need to take stock of the reality of many women’s lives – with low pay, domestic violence, rape, poor education and a lack of opportunity still blighting the chances of so many," she said.

Speaking of the award, which was presented today to El Saadawi, Baroness Kennedy said:  “Nawal was a leading voice in Tahir Square arguing for democratic reforms and encouraging young students and women to fight for their beliefs.” “She has shown great strength and courage and we are thrilled that she has been able to accept this award from Women of the Year.”

Exiled from Egypt several times as a result of her opposition to President Hosni Mubaraks’s regime, Nawal el Saadawi was in Cairo in January  when the demonstrations began in January.

The renowned doctor, feminist and psychologist who has fought for change for more than half a century, was imprisoned and prevented from writing for many years.

Hailed as "mother of the revolution’ she has been outspoken about the need to ensure women remained at the heart of the revolution.

Speaking on Al Jazeera, Nawal el Saadawy, who will be at the Frontline Club on her 80th birthday, said in February that there could be no democracy without women "because women are half the society, or more than half the society":

"So how can you have democracy without half the society? How can you have a revolution, how can you have justice, how can you have freedom without half the society?"

Asked if she trusted the military to keep their promise that they would pave the way to true democracy, Nawal El Sadaawi said:

I trust the power of the millions who obliged Mubarak to fall. I trust the millions, that’s democracy. We don’t need one man or one woman to govern us. We will have a collective revolutionary leadership. That’s the patriarchal capitalist mentality that we should have one person leading the country, leading the revolution. This is patriarchy and capitalism and imperialism.

But we will have a radical change, we will have collective leadership, men and women equal, Christians and Muslims, all Egyptians, will be represented in the leadership, as well as in every government, every committee, in everything. So, in fact, it’s a revolution, it changes life.

You can also hear her talking to Democracy Now!’s Amy Goodman about the Egyptian revolution, the fall of Hosni Mubarak and the opportunities for women in the Arab Spring. 

Book tickets to see Nawal el Saadawy in conversation with the BBC’s Razia Iqbal